Monday's Milk - TD / Ep.41 (The Impossibility of Lordship Salvation)
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Monday's Milk – TD / Ep.41 (The Impossibility of Lordship Salvation)



and we are alive welcome to another episode of Monday's milk this is episode number 41 for those of you that are keeping track and the topic for tonight is the impossibility of lordship salvation that's right we're gonna get into it tonight so I'm one of the hosts Jason crypts and with me I have my usual co-host and I'll introduce him first Darrell Darrell how you doing tonight greetings I'm doing how are you I'm fantastic sir you know the cod is just so merciful and giving I'm just didn't that season in my life where a lot of things are really happening you know I've been through a lot of struggle in my life and and had things you know not go the way I would want them to go and then there have been other times my life like now or it's the opposite of that so that's where I am right now you know in Jason we're also very happy for you so we're all behind you thank you so much I appreciate that and thanks for being here as usual Darrell we definitely appreciate you I appreciate it let's record or else maybe I don't know not on Mondays I mean I haven't effect you to be here if you weren't here I don't know what I would do thanks for being here also we have with us I'm going from left to right on my screen we have a guest that we had last week Joseph and he's come again to spend some time with us and we're delighted to have you again Joseph how are you doing I'm good I'm good I'm just I'm blessed and so thankful that I get to spend good quality time with a dear friend of mine and you know I'm I'm pleased to be a part of somebody's life that I can bring edification to because you know that that's what we're about as believers is to encourage and edify one another in God's grace and mercy and it doesn't bring her without ink enjoy that's wonderful man that's wonderful and I like the way you phrase that and if you're if you're learning learning that right now some people I think it takes years and years and years to learn that what you just said right there to learn that edifying is very much a part of walking with him and abiding in him you know it seems born out in the pages of Scripture and how are supposed to treat other other fellow brothers and sisters right and edification is a big part of that thanks for being here Joseph and so Joseph was talking a little bit about spending time with friends so we have that friend on the show with us tonight it's always a pleasure to have her Renee how are you doing hey Jason we couldn't be happier for you you've been through a lot and we want you to have your season of comfort no we rejoice right along with you yes Thank You Joseph from God saved here last year and he has Lauren and he's a perfect example of the opposite of what people believe about the true gospel the gospel really brings us to the Lord and makes us hungry for him mmm and because of his grace innocence but the unregenerate always think the opposite is going to occur when you have the freedom when you're not under bondage and fear and condemnation they think oh you're just gonna go crazy but Joseph is an example of somebody that's free from that bondage and fear and condemnation and has done nothing but want to grow in its baby yeah that's what's really nice to see it's good to be with you guys thank you thank you so much and we're just going to get right into it so if you guys want to a little bit how did Joseph come to to be there with you and what kind of things you've shown them around said he was there last year so it's not his first visit well no he got saved on my channel this is he was in California then and then he moved out to the East Coast and he came up here and got baptized in my church fantastic so he came up to get baptized and we went up to DC and saw some sights but little Jim got a fever so you know we had to cut some of the sightseeing a little bit short no it was still it was still nice you got to meet my pastor and you know my pastor made sure he knew what that gospel was before baptism so it was it was really good that's awesome I'm glad you guys are here so the topic for tonight is the impossibility of lordship salvation so it is a timely topic that this this competition I I guess I can use that word between the true gospel and this other gospel the lordship lordship idea it's been going on for a while now and it seems to be at a fevered pitch so on one hand you have lordship salvation and they call us ez believe ISM or greasy grace there's a lot of different names for it what was the one you said before we went on air oh they call it sloppy agape love to anybody give His grace to just the most undeserving you know they resent it because they deserve it and others don't that's what it is they're they're working so hard to have it how dare people get it for free yeah and that really is where it comes from it's problem let's let's let's start since it's Mondays milk let's talk about for those people that might be listening that don't understand it where does lordship salvation start and what are some of the differences between between what they believe in what we believe the most basic level oh sure I I think Lordships Ave just started with good intentions to the carnality in the worldliness within the Christian community however they corrupted the Gospel message in their zeal to get the Christian sanctify in experiential sanctification to grow spiritually they have up the standards to actually becoming a Christian and have mixed the sanctification process with justification now I'm not talking about our positional sanctification we're made holy by the blood of Christ but you know what I'm talking about the spiritual maturity so what they say the reason we call it lordship salvation is because they claim that in order to be saved well the real gospel is this that Christ died for our sins that he was buried he rose again on the third day and because of that we have eternal life right that news of the gospel that is the report God gave of his son that he gives us eternal life and that life is in his son and as many as believed on him so they gave me power to become the sons of God even to them that believe on his name but lordship salvation says that's not enough that's not enough you must be willing to submit to the lordship of Christ as in him being master and ruler over all areas of your life the way they get away with adding these works a righteousness is they claim they're not works that it's a condition within us that is necessary in order to prove that we were really ready for salvation but if you you know certain Spurgeon I got issues with but he did do a great sermon called the warrants of faith with all of this you know there is nothing in us that's good at all and nor can you ask an unregenerate person to even desire to submit every area of his life and if that was required to get saved and now it's based on us and not what christ has done so that that's why we call it lordship salvation and another way to put it is you may hear them say things like if he's not Lord of all then he's not Lord at all but we all know Jason all of us on this panel know that he is the Lord and he is the Lord whether you're to that or chipper disobey and he's still the Lord it's not dependent upon us living a certain way that defines his lordship but that is how they're adding our works because basically all that really means is that you're obeying his Commandments mm-hmm it's just another way of adding law to the gospel by redefining what it means to believe and that's instead of believe meaning simply piss Tio's to trust to take out at his word to rely upon what he says is true he's able to perform his promises they say believe is really faithfulness and obedience right so then it bases it on that that if it's faithfulness and obedience then it becomes about that rather than grace that's why it's impossible because the odd standards are perfection for me exactly and and so that's the fundamental problem with lordship salvation is they're they're taking something that Christ did perfectly and they're adding their own filthy rags righteousness to the mix as if somehow what Jesus did wasn't enough that's right so so that's it then we we've we found the flaw and we can just say good night everyone right so that's the basic for it and if people have any questions in the chat if they didn't understand anything that Rene just said as far as the the kind of the underpinning of lordship salvation before we really really get into it and we will please put it up in in the chat and trying to highlight it if you can or put it in caps also if you have any questions do that same thing as well and I do try to keep an eye on the chat while the show is going on I don't get a chance to type in there very much but we'll try so next I want to talk to Joseph just a little bit I was yeah I was gonna ask Joseph a question he just popped off there four seconds he might be having some problems and it Jason just so you know I will definitely be keeping track of the of the chat so you don't need to worry about that you just do you thing and don't keep an eye on perfect thank you so much you're always do a good job with that so our waited for Joseph now what what was your dealings Darryl with lordship salvation or did you have any well I I didn't even know what it was at first at one time I thought I could lose my salvation but I didn't I was kind of contradicting myself I was following someone else and holding into that into that error but then when I finally broke it down like a minute that doesn't make any sense right right so I just kind of got pulled out of that out of that error but I didn't realize how subtle it was until well I was following with the master right – right right Ray Comfort and Renea thank you for doing the the videos which you have on online that yeah you got a lot of good stuff except for that they throw in that little leaven right at the end so yeah that's that been my experience it's close and and just I want listeners to get this idea in your mind if you take a glass of water that's a hundred percent clear and clean and put one percent poison in it it will still kill you so as even when something looks as close to the real thing as possible that's exactly what the evil one wants it to look like he he knows what he's doing I mean he's been around long enough to be able to twist what God does and that's all he can do he can't create anything all he does is twist what God has created and try to make it in something else to keep people from God and he definitely does that with lordship so Joseph is back thank you Darrell I want to ask ask you Joseph leading up – well let me let me put it like this what what knowledge do you have or did you grow up in lordship a church or around that at all oh there we go it's it really is a blessing being saturated in in the Word of God being around such knowledgeable brothers and sisters because your your beginning do strip apart thing the lies that that are that are giving you the the picture that you were trying to the lift by and in the big thing was going to stop yeah every year and in this summer camp you you you it was never about Jesus it was always about stripping apart your life and measuring it up how how filthy you are and how you're not doing enough and how if you have a B and C in your life but you listen to rock music if you're listening to metal if you're a skateboarder the hell you need to end all of that yeah and and I tried doing that every time I would come across a significant amount of doctrine over what I was supposed to believe and behave in this belief it always failed there there was never any I never uh I never knew or thought I was saved they're always just with something missing and I couldn't ever did it yeah because it never came it never came to relying and trusting on the finished work of Christ it never did running till I was saved my entire world was which got up to the moonsto to say and I thank God for it because a the subtlety lies in in that little bit 11 like like Darrell spent gosh that is so good because in until your state you're not going to be able to see through the deception because it is deceptive yes totally is you know I gotta say I mean not to dis part my father at all but I was I was braced as a pastor's IDI all my life I mean I was raised in the church to all my life and eight months ago I would say I mean people need to understand that if you're looking through yourself in any way before Christ you're you're not saved it is Christ first always and forever amazed in yeah I'm just so blessed I'm just so emotional because it's it's just so lovely to finally walk in freedom oh well absolutely and it you don't have to apologize for that at all Joseph but we at least speaking personally for me I admire your ability to share your emotion because that is a is a wonderful thing you you were in bondage and now you're set free it's it you know it's like literally seeing someone that's been in prison for a long time and they they get they get out you know and who knows how long it was that they were in there but when they get out there they're no longer in bondage they're able to walk around and fellowship and socialize and go to a movie if they want you know and anything that they want Allah allowed to do while they were in bondage right it's even more important though this the spiritual freedom that we get being free by the truth the truth of Christ it's everything it's absolutely everything I want to go back Joseph you were talking about when you were in the summer camp and you know they were telling you that you weren't doing enough and how horrible you are at all that how did that make you feel like what was the what was the feeling at the time did you feel like and some of this is gonna seem like ridiculous questions but yeah did you feel like you were capable of attaining that oh well it came with the big concert to start it off and then it came with a great speaker do to get you emotionally at what you saying I can't do that yeah I can do this I can give all this up for God and after that I would constantly renew my faith the Christ I was constantly doing this over and over again and never understanding like what one was it once enough yeah rededicate they call it rededicating their life yeah Ray Comfort says do it again and mean it this time yeah I meant it I I was trying to meet it yeah uh yeah you know I I spell I felt good and then a month would go by and then well huh right that that I was starting to fade and I didn't you know and then I would see others that went for the same place and they're all looking like zombies and I could never figure it out I'm like well what the heck and they never and I never considered if I was saved or not because I'm here I am on doing this steps and doing what you know they only they do yeah yeah it's because we can't maintain that we're not meant to maintain that we never achieve it at all as ranae was saying Christ level God's level that we would need to be at is perfection and we're incapable of being perfect we can't do it by giving up our skateboarding or giving up our drinking or heavy metal music there none of that matters though any works that we do don't matter and again it comes down to the fundamental problem that that they have which is adding anything to what Christ did on the cross we don't need to add anything and even if we were able even if we thought we were perfect it would still not compare to the perfection of Christ thank God he didn't have assurance cuz what's a right right okay so let's talk about that a little bit because here's the problem renee and and you can go on about this if you like to there's a lot of people out there that think that they're saved that are in lordship salvation but they're they're really not and they they would say that they have the full assurance in their non salvation but looking at it from the outside we're concerned about them why are we concerned right well first of all if your foundation no other foundation can be laid other than Christ so if your foundation is partly on what you're doing and you think you are good you got they like to call it easy believe ISM that's easy legalism that is lowering the standards of the law where you've deceived yourself into thinking that your performance qualifies you for salvation because you think you given enough of your life up you're being obedient enough and and therefore you're mixing Jesus's blood with your willingness to clean up your life but if people get real honest with themselves these the self righteous are the only ones deceived in this right when they they will they'll come sometimes they'll be in a lot of sin like those say their party and get drunk fornicating right so they clean up their life and so they think that means they're born again no that means you found religion yeah I was witness or a Mormon or anybody that converts that does the same thing to clean their life oh yeah it doesn't mean that God's doing that in you right now he can do that and that's his will for all they get saved but salvation is just the beginning of a Christians life yeah you know and the the issue is they're trying to pile up qualifiers and instead of coming just as we are rah messed up laying it down at the cross and going even if even if like Ralph dainty Arnold said trying to repent of sin to be saved is like trying to pick the apples off an apple tree you took all the apples off but it's still an apple tree and all it can produce is opera's you know and that's what the flesh is it's never perfected yes we leave this fallen body like st. Paul said the good that I would that I don't the thing that I hate that I do who will save me from this body of death and then I thank God through the Lord Jesus Christ that we aren't safe from it one day he'll be free of this now that people would take that as us promoting sin and that's the most ridiculous thing because it's a goodness of God that leads men to repentance it's the goodness of God that makes men turn to him and come to him you know but the carnal mind can't get that and they're demanding that people desire the things of God warrant don't lie to themselves and and think that they're godly and but see the thing is is their heart hasn't changed at all right all it's done is gotten religious and self-righteous there's no like compassion and christ-like love and empathy there's none of that there's just this outer form of righteousness and people think if and everybody's got their own vague standard of it hmm you know but if people get really honest with themselves though they still said there's nobody I mean these it's crazy when these people tell me I repented of my sin and trusted Christ okay now wait a minute that's their complete opposite to each other because it's grace longer works and if you repented of sin and you thought that is what saved you then you weren't trust in Christ you're trusting in you yeah and that's your works and that's that's a lifelong process it doesn't take a lifetime to get bow horn you know the being saved is an event of birth right and it comes from believing the message if you have trusted what Jesus did for you realized you're not good enough you'll never be good enough to measure it beside to have it as Jesus said with man it's impossible with God all things are possible you think that means that when you get saved and you'll be good enough to earn it no that's nothing to do with anything yeah they they when you done that and then you said hey I'm gonna rest in the ship on Christ and and I'm gonna trust that he's gonna present me spotless and blameless and because I have faith in his blood now God's gonna impute his righteousness on me is if I perfect I have God's righteousness now if you've done that you have repented you have repented when Peter told the Jews repent and believe he said that because he had just crucified Jesus mmm now they had to change their mind about who Jesus was right now he was both Lord and Christ promised from the scriptures mm-hmm that's what he meant and I think there's a big misunderstanding of the word repent and that has caused a lot of confusion you can it can mean a change of behavior it can mean to turn away from a sinful thing but it's not always the context though and if if we I say this all the time but if you are Darrell or Joseph or me or anyone has to repent of their sin because that it's got to be perfect you got a hundred percent perfection if you have to do that and then keep it up daily we're all going to hell right your sin we don't even know we commit David asked for forgiveness for the same per minute and ignorance yeah exactly only the sins of commission which are things we do wrong omission not doing the things that are good and to do good to not do good that that is sin itself and whatsoever is not of faith is sin so if there's so much that it for it for for us to think anything we're doing is adding salvation as arrogant it's prideful it spits on the cross it tramples the Son of God underfoot it's just disgusting right and it's amazing when you actually ask them so you don't send anymore well no I mean I still make oh so you still sent because you know your mistakes are sin and their their their sin as mistakes you know don't minimize the radio we have all you know know they'll tell you yeah yeah I still but that's the thing I feel repentant after oh so it's about you now so then it's about the feeling yeah it's tomorrow how you feel right yeah thank you now it's about you again the bottom line is the only difference between every religion the broad way to destruction is man centered religion the true faith is Christ centered it is all Christ it is it is about how good god is it is about what God has done for us that is the true faith every other broadcast that climbing up another way thieves and robbers are coming in through what man is doing for God yeah which was after that's right which is also religion as a true belief I'm glad you brought that up the people are coming in another way there's they're thieves and thieves and robbers yeah so that's referred to the people that don't they're not quotable with the correct clothing in in terms of the wedding that's right and they're trying to come in it's also the Virgin's that didn't have any oil and at the end when the doors were closed they say you know let us in Fred how did you come to the wedding without a proper wedding garment that's right outer darkness with a sweeping and gnashing of teeth yes and what is the wedding garment renee with god's imputed righteousness there it is so that's the difference between the two we we put everything by the grace of God we put everything on Christ and we accept his imputed righteousness therefore that is the correct clothing that needs to be worn any other clothing any other outfit any other way that a person tries to come in they're thieves and robbers Adam and Eve with their fig leaves yeah let's go back to the red yeah hovering up you know this God's righteousness through faith and trust in him verse you know Jesus is blood versus man's righteousness is from Genesis to Revelation Easter Adam and Eve tried to cover their nakedness with their works of fig leaves they tried to sew that together but God slew an animal and then covered them so that was the first blood sacrifice that was applied to them and they had God's righteousness he clothed them he clothe them love them they could not clothe themselves they stood naked and ashamed in their fig leaves yep that we have to have that and you know you can find it everywhere and it is everywhere you mentioned in that little paragraph you mentioned repent so can't we end the idea of repentance and you know they're saying it means repent of sins that's what they that's what they say can we use God as an example when he's repented you didn't you say it was like 38 times it says in Jonah 3:10 it not only says that God repents it says that turning from sin is work it says God saw their works about the city an enema Nineveh they were doing wicked things including idolatry I'm assuming that's usually a straw the breaks camel's back yes God doesn't like that right so it says God saw their works that they turned from their wicked way and then God repented of the evil he would do in an animal okay yeah and it also there's a place where God does not want Israel to repent would say don't tell them don't go this route because they're gonna run into those warring tribes and they're going to get scared they're gonna have to fight these people right so don't go that with a lest Israel repent and return to Egypt lest its real change their mind your return to Egypt that is the proper use of the word repent now it can mean to feel sorrowful true but that is a whole separate greek word that word has met a male am i and it's only used in two or three places in scripture like the first godly sorrow worketh repentance just unto salvation and a lot of people think it means salvation of the soul like from hell they're out thirds people are already saved he's saying that once you're saved God will put a sorrow in your heart to get you to repent of the evil you're doing so that the consequences you're saved from the temporal consequences of sin destroying you mm-hmm okay guys can I jump in here with some questions in the Chad that would pertain exactly to that okay okay let's see here I'm gonna run a couple of these there's more three things here that are kind of all tie in together no problem let's see here when I sin I think I got a repent from that sin and then the second part is what about repentance from sin once you're saved okay and it says can we do that what can we repent of our sin once we're saved for fellowship okay Renee you want to answer those that's the first one again Darrell and then let's do one by one so when I sin I think I got a repent of that sin okay okay well here's the thing it's God's will that all his children live in a way that won't offend believers or unbelievers right because we don't want God's name to be blaspheme and I know that there's many people you could talk to and they'd say the reason they're not Christian is because of something hypocritical someone has done they've claimed to be of God and then done something evil and hurt that person and we don't want to do anything that would cause someone to not come to Christ right it's God's will that all of his children grow more and more in the image of Christ even in this fallen state even in this flesh and there's a process Peter talks about you know growing grace to the Moakler were transformed by the renewing of your mind but that process is growing from this to this to brotherly love to charity etc salvation actually takes that process and condenses it into something you've got to do right up front it takes away that lifelong process so if you if yours you're committing I guess he's zooming a habitual sin or like a mess up where you fornicated you knew you shouldn't have done that sure I mean but that's a that's more of a fellowship issue and it's not God leaving you it's it's how when we feel we have disobeyed our parents we tend to hide from them ya know that that's more we feel ashamed but when we're good when they go away and we don't throw the party you know and don't break in the liquor cabinet and the house is clean when we're happy when they come to the door they would be proud of us you know so sometimes that is just a matter of fellowship that that is our as you and I always say our reasonable service our bodies a living sacrifice as a reasonable service to God so yeah that's just a fellowship thing but before we move to the second question I want to use your example that you used about the parents and the liquor cabinet and stuff so in the life of a believer it's like if that person knew that their parents had already forgiven them for all their past sins all the present sins and all the sins that they would commit if if the kid really knew that that they were forgiven and that even though they got into the liquor cabinet or whatever sin that it was that they know that their parents were totally forgiving and merciful would they then have a problem coming to the parents and tell them what they've done yeah so that's the attitude that we get to have that is the freedom that we get to have an understanding now let me go a step further and say now in the scenario then does the kid say arms to do everything else now that I know that my my mom and dad are gonna forgive me of everything I've ever done it's am I gonna go out and go in the liquor cabinet and steal the car and run down the road and do all this stuff does it give does it make them want to do that or does it make them want to obey their parents Bible says that the strength of sin is the law so it's a sin shall not have dominion over you for you're not under law you're under grace so it works the opposite that the carnal mind thinks thank you and I get very concerned when people say well then if that was true I just go fornicate and this and I'm thinking well yeah Northwood that's your unregenerate thinking and makes me very concern for people when that is their response to it but God does love us that much and if that is your response he doesn't say I'll only save you if you're willing to be good let's relate that he says I love you and I died for you while we were yet sinners Christ died for us because he did that out of out of just gratitude for what he suffered for us that's the gratitude good we should serve and love and do the best we can to be gracious to others and and pass that message along that I mean that is the least we can do but God never makes any demand on anyone he's offering a free gift for my Gracie you saved through faith and that not of yourselves it's the gift of God small works lest any man should boast and so if anything we do can be added to that we could say hey I'm saved as Jesus died plus I was willing to do this or that and that nobody's gonna stand before Christ and boast the person or God mm-hmm no man will glory in the presence of God thanks for Nate all right Darryl what's the second one all right stand by all right what about repentance from sin once you're saved okay is that for fellowship okay so the person saved oh go ahead Joseph oh that's a it's a great question because you when I can't explain it when I was when I was still with the Holy Spirit a new wonderful desire to defeat the things Christ wanted from us as his sons and daughters became valuable to me right not that I chose to go out and seek these things but I stopped I saw a more defined beauty that I never stopped before not that I was ruled under law that's the whole thing yeah it was it was this it was the absolute race of who Christ is and what he did for us that made it a reasonable service or me to have that understanding to be a quit to be blessed now with that with that force tight now to know that oh you know yeah walking in the flat well what is that Derby you know it it didn't because there was no fulfillment in that that was the detractor yeah I wanted to speak things that brought that fulfillment that that is why we live on this earth you do to grasp for those things that bring fulfillment to grow me yeah you know what I'm staying I do notice yeah he did that in you before what everything as before you're striving out of your own power right to peace unto what they were telling you you needed to do Joseph yeah attain that level of lordship your relationship with God you had to you had to do it you Joseph hath do it to give up skateboarding and to give up a heavy metal whatever whatever to get there and you're saying that after you were saved then you had this welling up of desire for you to follow the things of God and your mind was changed and of course it continues you continue to grow we continue to mature that's the way that it should work if we're abiding in him or connected to the vine all of that throughout our lives we'll continue to mature and grow and we'll learn more and more about him we see his face he gives us more and more knowledge is what Matthias says all the time you ask him for a little lighting gives you more light and that and that's continuous that we can't know God completely I would say that we have eternity to know him get him back to the point it was different before so you Joseph you're saying that you could see the difference between the way that you thought in your carnal mind before you relative and the way that you thought after what change he'll through what changed Christ that's it that's it you didn't change you didn't come to him all cleaned up ahead of all you know I paid my and you tried that you tried to lay it all down before so getting back to the question then so the the person's a believer and they and they'd break into the liquor cabinet they know that their parents don't want them to do that again we're presenting the scenario that the parents are representing God and the parents are totally forgiving and merciful and they know intuitively at this point they know that their sins are already forgiven so what would the purpose be then of asking for forgiveness and is that right that's the question being asked is it just for fellowship do we confess our sins one to another is it helpful for for Joseph if if if I sinned if I do something wrong and you're my brother and and we trust each other is it helpful for me to come to you and say Joseph not look at porn and I I sinned I looked at I looked at porn I'm trying not to do that and you're aware it is yeah because you know what I can remind you that God loves you no matter what yeah I did still love you yeah you're right you're the thing is here I wanted to clarify something we're talking so much about sin see I I put away the sin thing when Christ said that he made me righteous and holy and I was his child that isn't who I am anymore and see behavior stems from who you believe you are mm-hmm and that's why it says be transformed by the renewing of your mind if you know your beloved gods you are righteous you are holy you are set apart your beloved of his you're his child now when you find out you're royalty you you don't want to act like like filthy you don't want that and it doesn't agree with who God says you already are the lordship is that it's trying to get you to perform something in order to be something but God says you already are that and so act like it so it's like he says I have made you holy I have made you righteous mm-hmm so it's eat it's better for it for me anyway if I'm always keeping my eyes on Christ and always being reminded of who he says I am it's a lot easier for me to be loving torch or to you know not get into my flesh and get the arguments with them and you know it's just a lot easier because I'm coming from an identity given me not so much dead letter well that's a sin and that's a sin and that because the strength of sin is the law so the more I'm looking at the law and my failure instead of on Jesus if I'm thinking about Jesus all the time I'm thinking about his love for me and who he says I am you know there's always fear convicts us of righteousness so it's going to tell us what the right thing is to do mm-hmm you know and so it'll always lead you to do the right thing that's coming from a place of love and compassion so the thing is I I don't know why Christians are so focused and obsessed with sin it's like the sin was put away it was purged it was gone and it's never going to be held against anyone who's been purged by the blood of Jesus good jesus paid a death penalty that I owed I can't pay that a second time no it's already been done a criminal cannot be charged twice for the same crime and since Christ paid that debt for anyone who trusts in him then we know that it's been paid for and so we can move on to perfection right we can know that it's God's will that we grow based on who he says we had already are I really hate this repenting from sin all the time talk about sin okay to the pure all things are pure to the defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure the conscious is the file and they're looking for evil under every Rock and they can't see anything pure or lovely or wonderful in anything and so I tend to focus on things that are good and things that are true and things that are honest and things that edify and things that lift up it's what I like to do I get more victory anyway okay I agree what you said I think that like if somebody has a porn issue I think they need to find a man of God and be accountable to him yeah for that's not round your man and help him remember who God says he is yeah so in this case Joseph or you or Darrell could remind me of Who I am in Christ and I remind me that I don't need to focus on the sin itself and and do to keep abiding in him keep reading my word and keep fellowshipping with other believers and then exactly you have a thin habit right and have it they're easily broken yeah especially with the power of the blood of Christ absolutely so that I think answers the second question for the for the reasons of fellowship it's perfectly fine to do that remember who you are and remember that your sins are already all forgiven they've been forgiven and it's not a partial forgiveness that's not like well your sins are forgiven up until the moment that you're saved but then he doesn't for your future sense your sins were forgiven 2000 years before you're even born any anyone listening this broadcast your sins were already forgiven long before you were born for those of us that have accepted the free gift all those sins were forgiven well let me let me clarify that all the sins that anyone has ever committed have been forgiven whether a person accepts that and believes that or not that's what makes the difference okay what was the unless anyone has another comment to make on the second question will ask the third question I think it ties in we may have already covered it but if that's the case we'll just move forward I want to know if Daryl thought as a man as he I know he must have counseled people before with the porn issue it's a big issue in the church and I was wondering if he had had more you know what his approach was was it better you know did he tell remind them of who they were how did he deal with that because that seems to be a big thing that uh men and women both their structure men and women yeah yeah you know what Renee it was a struggle for me but every time I tried to bring I know it's a problem everywhere else and when it I guess there isn't a problem in the church that I was going to because nobody talked about well that that's a whole nother show right there of what people were willing to talk about and what they're not in the church in the brick and mortar yeah well for myself just real quick for myself the more I focused on Christ and just read my Bible and all those things including pronoun we just faded away they those muscles just just absolutely faded away so he called deliverance if you will I don't know but seek ye first the kingdom of God his righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you Matthew 6:33 and nuts for me that that's what worked God whose righteousness are we to seek is it's very unfortunate because some a lot of people are really struggling with that and I have heard people say that for this particular sin it seems weird but I've heard people say they will publicly proclaim verbally as their search in the porn I am the righteousness of God in Christ or state some claim of who they really are to remind them to make it harder to actually go into the sin I have heard it help people I was just curious yeah you know yeah but he was he was gracious to me and it took it took a while took a little while and the more I tried to do it the more I knew he was watching me when you know God's right there with you know is is okay Darrell what's the third question again if we've already addressed we did we did kind of cover it was kind of the same question asked again but I do want to ask kind of ties in do we need to have godly repentance in order to be saved some would say you need to have it based on 2nd Corinthians 7:10 okay well let's pull that up talking about salvation of the soul from Hell yeah exactly so I got it right here Jason okay so I'm gonna pull it up so I can read the surrounding text yes let's pull it up I'm just gonna pull it up as well and I'll pose ok 2nd 2nd Corinthians 7:10 all right 2nd Corinthians 7:10 for the I remember correctly Paul is writing the church correcting some behaviors let me uh and I think he's referring to the gentleman who was sleeping with his stepmother if I'm not mistaken let's read it Darryl just read a few verses and let's get a context of what's being said in verse seven okay although I made you sorry with a letter I do not repent though I did repent for I perceived that the same epistle hath made you sorry though it were but for a season but now now I rejoice not that you were made sorry but then he saw road to repentance for ye were made sorry after a godly manner that he might receive damage by us in nothing for godly sorrow worketh repentance repentance to salvation not to be repented of but God least godly sorrow worketh death of the world worketh death so that's our second Corinthians 7:10 so God here's the key words here forgot godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation so people say that you need to have a godly sorrow in order to be saved based on that don't think that's what it says Renae yeah here's the thing if you go over to 1st Corinthians there is an issue of a gentleman who is having an affair with his father's wife and he's fussing at them and saying hey you guys haven't grieved you should have mourned this horrific sin that even the Gentiles don't have a name for it but instead you completely ignored it and so he's telling he's telling them hey you know turn such a one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that God may save a spear on the day the Lord well what happens is the man repents of that ok and he comes back into fellowship and Paul restores him and says hey I've judged this matter as if I was there because you guys wouldn't judge it but now that I have the man has changed his behavior receive him as a brother and heal him lest he be overwhelmed with sorrow for the grief of what he has done right and he should be received as a brother in Christ so in the letter in second this is what he's referring to he's saying look I made you sorry but the letter I wrote you the letter telling them to telling you to deal with it but and it makes me you know I'm I feel bad that you feel bad about it but I don't I don't change my mind that I wrote it I I'm glad I wrote it because even though you felt bad and I made you sorry it caused you you worse made sorry after a godly manner meaning that you wanted to you felt sorrowful for allowing such a grievous sin to be committed by brother and you didn't address it but now you have and he says and here it says for you were made sorry after a godly manner that ye may receive damage by us in nothing so what they were being saved from was damaging the church right so it says for godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of but the sorrow of the world worketh death it says you saw it after a godly sort what carefulness it wrought in you what clearing of yourselves what indignation what fear yeh what vehement desire what zeal what revenge in all things you have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter so he is addressing a very specific matter that was going on in the church it is resolved they have the godly Salah has worked repentance to saving them from hat receiving no damage by them within the church they resolve the matter the man's repented of it everybody's restored in fellowship he's pleased with the outcome and that's what that verse is talking about well there you go ok ok every name could you say that that's a tense at different tense of salvation it's not talking about salvation of soul bang that's right from the pleasure galley sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation not to be repented of what when I if I fell out of a boat and I said save me am I talking about being saved from hell of course not no gains from drowning and the same thing here this church had to be saved from again a context is everything you can be saved from many things and when James talks about convey save him he's not talking about from hell so when it says you know you saw it after a godly sort and then it says you have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter and so what they saved themselves from if you go up a little bit to verse nine it says that you might receive damage by us in nothing so they were saved from the temporal earthly consequences and damage it would have caused to the church and to them and to the reputation and to their fellowship and so forth thank you alright I think we'll cover that one any more Oh golly sorry with that Holy Spirit yeah that's right I think that clears it up anyone else have any more comments on that Joseph do you have anything you want to add oh I'm just getting a kick out of all the verses that I grew up with and what that was one of them to point the finger at me just sit there and wave it and it's it's just so lovely to to hear the truth because once you hear the truth and the illumination of who Christ this becomes further rooted it within you just lovely just lovely I think that's the perfect way to put it Joseph just lovely all right so we've kind of highlighted a few things with lordship and we've talked a little bit about what the alternative is so just to recap part of the biggest problem is that they're counting on their own works their own filthy righteousness rags and adding it to what Jesus has already taken care of himself and they're resting on that rather than resting on Christ finished work and that definitely does separate them and we know that the works themselves do not anyone so what other aspect of lordship do you Rene mainly Rene what other aspect of lordship do you feel it's important to cover to make our point it's in your life to Christ this is a big one all right what a lot of this is this started back in the UH oh these got hit the sawdust trail with Oh Billy Sunday yeah it got real popular in the 70s with Billy Graham yeah and Billy Graham would call people down to make a decision for Christ and to give their lives Christ right well your ear is something that sounds really good it sounds really righteous but are we saved because we give God anything nope what does he do with our lives other than save it and crucify it right yeah we're saved that the car can't become before the horse we're saved because Christ gave his life for us it was his life that he offered that's us not us offering our lives to him and I think that this needs to be addressed this whole issue with John MacArthur saying he says if you want to be my disciple you got to pick up the cross you got to give up all your own desires all your in a five million dollar mansion by the way teaching lies in hypocrisy you know it's just bottom line I want to talk evil in the man I don't know I I all I know is he preaches another gospel have to say it and his ministry is so massive that I'd a it needs to be marked and avoided and you know it's it's just another gospel altogether and it cannot say even its Man Center and so his whole thing is he's taking these verses about the hardships of first century discipleship yeah that they might actually die and and and and Jesus didn't need half-hearted disciples for the foundation of his church no and he no way you you're probably lose your life and if you try to save your life you lose it but if you give it up hey you're gonna you're gonna gain it right everything you give up is gonna be given to you tenfold a hundredfold he's warning them though if you want to be my disciple but discipleship is not the same thing as salvation oh say that again discipleship if you want to be Christ's disciple you pick up your cross but you're saved by the fact he picked up his there's two separate things you can't think that you picking up your cross is going to compare to the cross he bore salvation must be based on the cross he picked up carried and died on that that's got to be the foundation for your salvation and then if you want to be his disciple now we know Dimas loved this present world as forsaken being a disciple but he didn't lose a salvation he didn't continue on this very treacherous journey in the first century that Apostles the disciples went through and Jesus is just saying you know a lot of you were following me now but most you're gonna leave ya need half-hearted people I know you gotta know what you're getting into with me they're gonna hate you you're gonna lose your you're gonna hate your mother mother and father and all this stuff but John MacArthur will tell you those are standards for salvation he will tell you in the book is the Gospel according to Jesus he will take these verses about Jesus starting his earthly ministry to Israel and make that a standard for salvation is not a standard for salvation you don't have to give up anything to be saved you don't have to pick up any cross to be saved you don't have to submit give commit promised nothing God doesn't want your false promises anyway oh he so doesn't know it's it's just the big deception is that that discipleship and salvation of the same thing you gotta be saved first because you can be a disciple and pick up your cross and do your best to follow Jesus and drop right into hell because you're never trusted in the cross at Calvary yeah you know so this first things first Jesus talks about the first works it you know in the book of Revelation that you got to be saved first and then he will begin that work in you and he'll give you power we see the disciples hiding and cowering and then when you see him risen look at the power of the Holy Spirit falls on them they're willing to die for their faith because the Holy Spirit is in them he's giving them the ability to pick up their cross and follow Christ but they didn't have that they he said the Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak they didn't have that power until they got saved the true Holy Spirit so you've got to be saved first and then you can pick up your cross and do all these things in service to God service for God yeah that's perfect thank you Annie so we come to him as we are we come to him as we are with all of our baggage all of our sin everything that we carry around with us and we lay them metaphorically we lay them at the cross because jesus paid the price for them and then he gives us his imputed righteousness he puts that on us and were justified just as if we'd never sinned and that's the way that he sees us then from that point on so we don't have to focus on sin we don't have to try to do the impossible that lordship would put on us that we that that we somehow have to conform ourselves to the image of his son doesn't say that scripture doesn't bear out that we're the ones that do that he's conforming us the Holy Spirit is working in us and changing us who's producing the fruit who produces the fruit and this is open to anyone who produces the fruit that that we show as believers in our lives he's the vine he's not weird branch of the vine it's all him mm-hmm you can't do anything good unless you're in the in the vine there's no one good for God no one could be God you said just as I am and that old have just as I am without one plea except thy blood was shed for me oh that's beautiful that's beautiful isn't it true and we're not gonna get off onto this topic but isn't it true that some of the old hymns I'm not saying all of them but many of the old hymns have the the gospel the true gospel built into them and I am so grateful that I grew up in churches with with those hymns that run through my mind and and seemingly at the perfect time amen Jason yeah Darrell the one that says it might be just Sam where it says something I stand on nothing less than Jesus and his righteousness Jesus Jesus blood and righteousness yes what's that song though I've almost got it yeah that's it I owe Senate Lester printed stain he washed it away yeah they're great Amazing Grace is one of the greatest ever there's great I got another question in the chat ok before we give to the question Joseph do you want to say something yeah I'm just oh man I I like I'm on fire right now because praise God hey I am just so I ain't mad Christ's mercy and I'm so thankful I'm at his mercy and not a man's mercy and not hearing another righteousness into the kingdom of God but but Christ alone because those were the questions in my mind all the time when I would hear these million-dollar speakers haven't come and speak and well how do I get to that well you you know you have to give up so much of this in order to be righteously appearing like me yeah you know when that fire within me was there I just didn't know how you just that simplicity was taken you just removed anyways those people can complicate the gospel and I heartbeat oh my god that thing the gentleman put in there from John MacArthur's Gospel according to Jesus at page 46 literally conservative wrote real grace does not include the Christians Liberty to do precisely as he chooses you know what it does but guess what what we choose to do changes when we're saved we want to do brother Luke says before I got saved I did exactly what I wanted after I got saved to do exactly as I want it but my wants are different go ahead Darrell okay here's a hypothetical question here but what if a person commits a crime when they are saved these are a safe person commits a crime does that mean they should turn themselves in to be forgiven by God nope go ahead anyone want to take down don't you think it depends I mean do you want to answer that Daryl actually no you guys can run because I got a I got a chicken in the oven I gotta go check well first of all I'd say it depends I would go to God with that it would depend on you know if you've done it and you know you're never gonna do it again you know you you're forgiven for it that's what I meant need to go take some earthly punishment for look no no sage person gets away with anything right I mean that's just the bottom line and that would have to go on a case-to-case basis if eating you up so much that you can't have peace and move on until you have paid for it then do your thing but my thing is I don't believe a Christian will get away with anything I mean you were chastise it would just depend on how Grievous it was you know let me but if we murdered somebody I'd say yeah you probably need to do that those people need closure yeah but it's not for the forgiveness that's that that's what I'm saying I'm saying you've already been forgiven and you said it in in the sense that you you presented but I just want to make clear I said no because if you if you if you're saying that you're you're turning yourself in the police for the forgiveness right no you don't have you don't have now the Holy Spirit may direct you to go and confess you very well may do that and then it would be on a case-to-case basis whether you were feeling like you needed to do that or not what is Oh yourself in I mean is what I'm saying is why do you feel the need to be punished for it like that that's why you would turn yourself in to be punished for a crime yes you got away with I mean that would be the only reason you do it but a case the case yeah because Catholics believe unless you repent and confess that you can't be saved so that's that's why they do that yeah so then we could put them in the category of religion yeah it could also mean you can't answer that in a broad way right I mean what if you would you steal a candy bar there was $2 and you're gonna go turn yourself in you're gonna go to jail and pay a thousand dollar fine I mean come on oh yeah that's a good point yeah cuz because they're their laws sometimes are way out of whack right oh my gosh don't get me started on that the fact I won't get started on that remember that I'll just stay briefly there are people in prison right now that have have been wrongly imprisoned for things that that shouldn't be illegal but yet you know in different countries certain things are illegal and this shouldn't be and good people are being held in bondage for that sort of thing but the beauty in Christ is that every everything has been taken care of in regards to our salvation and then all that we have to do is accept it accept what he's done and rest in that and part of that the point I think that we need to make sure everyone understands is believing is key believing in it because there's a lot of people that are counting on their own works so they're not resting they're not believing in it and that's that that's the that's the key which you once you agree could anyone hear me the point of believing it everything's hinged on that it's not hinged on what we do it's not hinged on what denomination church we go to it's not hinged on how much money who we make or anything it's what what we believe and if we're believing on what Christ did then that's all that's necessary we don't have to clean ourselves up before we come to them that's the whole thing when people ask him what about this am I still saved what about that what that tells me is they don't fully understand the accomplishment of the death of Christ when it says died for our sin such a wages of sin is death mmm gift of God's eternal life to Christ Jesus our Lord the way you sent his death and that's the penalty all of us oh yeah but Christ died so that means when in Hebrews it says that Christ died once for all were perfected forever justified of all things and Jesus by himself purged our sins now it's silly to say only our past sins because we didn't even exist when Christ died all of our sins were future we were future so it's crazy it's the only past sentence because what happens to the sin you commit now or if you commit one tomorrow the blood doesn't apply well they use that Oh anything – I'm glad you brought that up because they'll use the scripture that there's no more application of grace then that none of that makes sense right you can't make that work we still fail and if the blood doesn't cover for we ran backwards then it doesn't even make sense and and we would have no reason to believe now we should just put it off till we get close to death to make sure all the cynics covered yeah oh my gosh what a great poet you know why I believe now I know I'm gonna mess up and lose it you know and and since God imputes his righteousness on us because Christ died percentage was buried where is going to third and because of that we have eternal life it says that we can know we have it like we know we have it because we trust what he did was enough yeah trust he accomplished saving us he provides salvation I understand to the gospel of Christ it's the power of God unto salvation for all who believe so if you know none of it none of it makes any sense now all of these things I've heard people say well you believe and then every day you repent of that sin and then the blood is applied this Bloods already been applied like that's Catholic that's you having to recruit safai Jesus and keep putting the blood that's what they did with the animal sacrifice they're here up to here they have to keep doing it to cover the sins of the mass but it says that we don't do that anymore that Christ did it all it's done once for all yeah you know and and it says in Isaiah the prophecy is that his righteous servant will justify many for he bore their iniquities and here's the thing Jason people don't believe the gospel does it right they don't believe no and again so the the topic is the impossibility of lordship salvation yeah so we've mentioned the the basis of it and we've mentioned making God the Lord of or making Christ the Lord of our life are there any other parts of that that you feel we need to discuss as far as what makes it impossible it's the repenting of the send all your sins it's having to commit or submit all areas of your life to his lordship again I would ask any Christian honestly or anybody that claims to be Christian who does that under persona and if it's not a hundred percent what is the standard it's not resting in Christ either no now you're constantly looking at you it's all me and what I'm doing and that what Christ did just again anything I try to tell people if it points to anything in us our faithfulness or obedience or works how we live anything it's not part of salvation exactly so I go back to the example that I brought up earlier about a glass of water it's 100% purified water and you put one percent poison in it it will still kill you what eleven leaveneth the whole yeah so if we get a glass of of God's imputed righteousness and we add anything to it it doesn't matter what it is we had another pastor that we like and we say oh I'm gonna believe and trust what my pastor says and we put that in that glass is it still is it still Christ's 100% perfect righteousness then I heard a new addition a new subtle addition just yesterday ooh very sad day here I did a videos on Charles Stanley's website and he I know he knows the wrong I couldn't reach it I know he preached her true gospel before yeah unfortunate I think a lot of these pastors are bending to the will of other theologians yeah the priesthood being accused of you know a lice license to sin and so so they're they're bending to man's tradition but what the one I saw that they added to it is now you have their the new thing is well you don't have to you can't repent of all your sin but you must be willing to so then it's about the willingness yeah now you know you got to be willing to and also you must have a desire to change your life and turn 180 degrees in a new direction that's also a qualified looking out something about you yeah in that sense first was willingness and then it was the desire and I that verse comes to mind that the coral mine is an enmity with God it is not subject to the laws of God neither indeed can be an unsaved person to desire but they go it not possible there we go so the word is impossible it's that possible not possible to do that yep okay there are you back yet is there any more questions from the chat I am back and no not really the Holt is moving fast it's hard to keep up with oh I know it's not that sir okay Renee we wanna know can you explain what Rustin Christ is well there's an interesting event in the Old Testament a man goes out gathering fire sticks to make fires on the Sabbath day he went out and he gathered all he did was gather up like Kindle for a fire he gathered up sticks and he was put to death Wow if you just read the Old Testament say man that's harsh that's really harsh but the reason God put that in the Bible Paul tells us that the Old Testament is an example for us today it was a shadow of when God says that you must rest that means you're trusting that what God's plan of salvation and what his son did was sufficient so you have ceased work it tells us in Hebrews and we have ceased from our works as God did from his so the Sabbath is a picture of the rest we have in Christ because we have trusted that what Jesus did his work was sufficient to save us so we have ceased from our works of trying to please God through our performance in order to be at peace with him and justified in his eyes we have understood that what Jesus did finished it for us and we trust and so we rest in that and so what that story in the Old Testament is telling us that first for him that works is the reward no longer recognize race but of debt but for him that worketh not but believeth on him who justifies the ungodly his faith is counted for righteousness so if you simply trust and try and stop your work stop you know exhausting yourself Jesus talked about all you who labor all you who are working with are heavy laden I will give you rest right when when you have stopped cease your works trying to get right with God and you've trusted what Christ has done you can rest knowing that you have eternal life that you have peace with God through what Christ has done and if you try to work when God says rest it will bring you the second death but the man picking up sticks on the Sabbath was put to death because that represents people trying to work for salvation and they will it will send them to where to everlasting life no it will send them to the second death mm-hmm well the rest is knowing that we have eternal life we don't have to work anymore to try to be right with God it's all done Jesus did all the work yeah so so one of the biggest differences between what we believe and what lordship believes is that we put everything what we didn't do a god put everything on Christ and through Christ everything was finished so we believe just resting in him and believing in what he did and believing in him is what does it for us absolutely and as our sister Victoria wrote in the chat room that Jesus told us what the work of God was it was to believe on the one he'd sent there it is you know what do the works of God this is the work of God that you believe on he who Mia sent it's in more than one place to it that is the simplicity of the gospel believe believe believe in what he did and it's interesting they're not if they believed it they wouldn't feel the need to add to it yeah this is we've talked about this before but I said that's to tell when all these people come against you Renee and this is kind of personal to you but I mean happens to anyone happens to anyone that's trying to present the actual gospel nowadays and it's very very sad but when they come against you and they hurl all all their curses and all their oh you must not be this or you must not be that or you shouldn't be doing this or shouldn't be doing that you see it in the venom that they spout you it's a tell every time what they're putting their trust in oh yeah they're putting their trust in their own works because they're actually deceiving us themselves into thinking that because they don't do whatever it is that they're accusing you of or anyone else of that man you keep themselves don't keep it that's right yeah and it says plain and simple in Scripture at the parable of the story of the Pharisee and the publican the Pharisee boasted to God thank you God he gave God credit for his righteousness thank you God I'm not like that publican over there I tied I do all this good stuff I don't do this and then he went away on saying but the publican just you know humbly wouldn't even look up to heaven and said Lord just be merciful to me a sinner he went away safe but in the beginning of that parable it says something very important it says the public the Pharisee stood and prayed within himself and despised others yep they despised others they look down on others and it also reminds me of the story of the vineyard workers whether they were that only worked an hour and got paid the same as they did yeah go through that Rene let's go through that particular parable because I think there are some things there that work there's a story in the Bible Jesus tells about a nice man who owns a vineyard and he sees some guys hanging out in the in town and he's a friend how come you're not working and he goes always throw him any work and because we'll come work in my vineyard and I'll pay you but cinereous a day's wage right so he hires him and then an hour later another guy shows up and he hires them and he agrees that there is a point he agrees on the wage yeah he agrees every person that he hires agrees to this amount and so it goes on throughout the day he hires several workers and then at the end of the day one hour before work is to be done another man shows up and he says we'll come and work and he offers him the same wage that he offers the rest of the workers who worked all day and so he gets paid for the whole day's wage but he only works one hour now at the end of now there's a hidden story there's a hidden message in this for Israel Jesus mentions the first will be last and the last shall be first and that is him saying that Israel was called first but they're gonna be last because they don't believe and then the Gentiles they're called last but they'll end up being first because they're the first to believe right that's why he said sure you're gonna see the Gentiles coming from all the nations eating with Abraham Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom and you're gonna be outside there weeping and gnashing your teeth they're gonna be so angry right what happens here is the vineyard owner pays the guy that only worked in our first mm-hmm and the guy that worked like eight or ten hours in the Sun all day begins to well up with anger bitter and resentment now I believe that your context of is Israel being bitter that the Gentiles were brought in late and they're going to enter the kingdom before they do I really believe that's the true context but I also see this could be applied to people resenting God's goodness and free grace given to everyone because they think they deserve it more because you'll find out that the vineyard worker speaks to the guy that he hired first who worked all day and he goes wait you're he worked an hour and he gets the same pay that we do and we sweat in and worked in the fields he goes wait wait wait friend did I not agree with you on a price didn't you agree that what I was paying you was fair and now because I offer this man my grace is my generosity now evil in your sight can't I do with my money what I want to do with it can I give it to who I want to give it to I'm not short changing you I'm not giving you less than what you agreed to receive why is my goodness now evil in your sight hmm and it to me it seems like that's what a lot of them that cheap grace floppy agape great and how dare they call what Christ did cheap just because it's free for us it's not cheap it's absolutely absolutely free but it cost God his son it cost Jesus amid suffering yes it did cost him it was not cheap but because we don't have to pay anything for it does it make it cheap and so they resent that they feel they've paid something for it see they gave up this or that habit they were willing to do this or that how dared that guy gets saved and still you see what I mean it's me evil and prideful and arrogant and nasty now they call they hate that the glorious gospel of God's grace and unconditional love they want God to be stingy with His grace for only those that deserve it but it said Christ died for the ungodly you know not those that you know measure up that's right always think of that story that's a great story anger that people have towards the gods free grace that he made and what with it's not free it's not grace at all exactly so within that story then is the same tell the guy that's getting mad that he worked all day and he sees the other guy that's only worked an hour and he gets the same pay again it's the same tell and I believe in in this particular story and with the Lord shippers it's definitely pride and being angry that someone else is getting the same treatment because they're not as good as they are they they deserve it more yeah they deserve it more um the same could be said about the and we've mentioned this before but the story of the prodigal son you have the son that leaves and takes everything you pick up on that most people forget about the other brother yeah yeah they forget about the brother that wouldn't come into the to the party he was so filled up with anger against his brother that left and still got rewarded with the fatten fattened calf and with ring in the robe and everything that also gives another example of how we can come to come to God how we can come to Christ because the son was absolutely filthy absolutely filthy he and what what did what did the father and that story do he put his robe on he put a ring on his finger and and he threw a party flop do you know how scandalous and outrageous that story was for the Near East in the first century well yeah including the running yeah that their dunno the father would have disinherited him and disowned him and that would have been the thought of every person sitting there in the Near East you did not first of all to even ask for as inheritance is basically saying I can't wait for you to die and the the disrespect that he has for the father that everybody thought that he should showered that on the good side but here's the thing people think that's how God is that you have to somehow measure up or earn his love yeah but he doesn't love us because we're good no roxas because he's good that's it it's all people forget it's his character yeah it's again it's all about him it's not any about us not at all not even 1% it's not about us at all it's not about what we can do it's not about how good we are because none of us were good except for God that story would have shocked a lot of things Jesus said for that time was absolutely shocking and even infuriating and offensive the Good Samaritan the Good Samaritan Samaritans were hated by the Jews they even walked an extra two miles to have to go avoid the town of Samaria yeah they wouldn't go through there absolutely so when he told that story I'm sure I mean Jesus seemed to pick things that he knew would get to the religious religious man yeah and and and aren't they the only ones he ever spoke too harshly to I have said that so many people would especially the ones that are accusing other other people for their sin when they're the ones they're the Pharisees they're the they're the self-righteous themselves and yes Jesus only talked that way to those people he didn't talk that way to the prostitute that was caught in sin tax collector not even the hated tax collector he went in and eat with them yep he said I'm coming to your house to do it for dinner tonight he invited himself Zacchaeus remember him he was a known thief yeah yeah and not once not once and I love when Jesus said those I love when he's sitting there and the woman comes in and she's wiping his feet with her tears and and self-righteous men are sitting there if he knew what kind of woman he wouldn't let her touch him I said but here's the thing our sin doesn't make him dirty touching him makes us clean you know and that's what they are they are missing it he's not worried about their sin or their his their diseases making him dirty just just touching him makes us clean and and and I love what he says to that man you you know you think you should righteous right because of how you're acting and but but you didn't kiss my feet you didn't even give me a kiss on the cheek you you didn't do anything to honor me and show your love to me and then he tells the story about the two debts how much will who will love the master more the one that had a lot of dad or the one that had a little bet he said that's right those given much love much that's why she was bowing at his feet and that's why those of us that aren't deceived enough to think we're actually good or deserve it or living up to something we love him we we love him and that's why we fight for this message to get to others because well I don't want anybody in the despair I felt no that's a terrible place no it is I'm so great I'm so grateful for him bringing me out of my own self-righteousness my own arrogance my belief and you've heard me talk about this but I'm believing that I knew everything there was to know about I didn't need to learn anything else I'm done I'm done and then yet he he showed me he put me on my back metaphorically speaking not in a hospital but emotionally in my life and showed me that I was relying on my own power and not resting in him Jason and Darrell Oh Joseph all of you there's an interesting theme going on I just saw okay in the chat room it seems to be the the same same thing we always get that we're promoting sin we don't Wow I'm telling you that you you trying to keep the law which you've already failed to keep and you can't be justified by it I was telling you that none of that is saving you promoting said I I don't understand that I feel freer and I want and want to glorify God and worship and embrace his name or the the imputed righteousness that I now have or my belief and it's done that is the most glorious thing and it is beyond that for those who cannot hear that is all they hear but for those who can hear hear the righteousness of God yeah it didn't make Joseph want to send more no that's what I was gonna ask Joseph talk a little bit about that we did we did start it toward toward the beginning you sharing a little bit about how you used to feel for you before you were saved and how it feels after and the change of change of mind that took place in in your life so address that a little bit are Joseph you this is putting you on the spot but are you are you thinking that you can just go sin live whatever way you want are you content that that you can do that or do you have any desire to live that way yeah that's the thing could I could I go out and just haphazardly sin make wrong choices absolutely no but and I know and I know that myself a shin is secured but here's the flipside do all that never in my life have I had a a willing like it's not me inside that's what's weird it's it's the growth of the Holy Spirit within me who calling me him due to be in in the likeness of Jesus and I've never had that before and it isn't some feeling it isn't this fist rush anymore it is this consciousness about me that is only through a gift of of God his the eternal life that that Holy Spirit that is living within me it is completely opposite of anything before when I was listening to Brittany's channel that one night it it wasn't even a feeling like everything just BAM hit me and oh my gosh I don't have to work for it anymore you man Jesus is it it's only in him and I mean this fire of wanting to consume as much as much as a word as I can do to bring in that that grows I I mean I want it to grow as much as I can to keep her going yeah it is only transformed my mind because I diligently deep to be transformed in my mind yeah Thank You Joseph just to be clear we have not said on this episode or on any episode we've not encouraged anyone to go out and sin and again just as Rene was saying that's the carnal part of a person's thinking that they think that that they think that because of the the abounding endless grace of God that He bestows on us that because we're free we know that we can send we know that we will sin but that were not in that mindset of oh yeah we're all because his Grace's is so boundless then that means Oh sin so that grace may abound and that's what Paul said of course we're not supposed to do that he hears us say he thinks we're saying don't keep the law but we're saying you can't buy the law we're not saying don't live godly lives we're just saying none of that has anything to do with you being saved you can't divide you know salvation from service of discipleship because you can't mix it your service your discipleship that determines reward loss of it chastisement earthly consequences blessing behold I lay before you life and death blessing and cursing nothing has changed still does that right but as far as eternal life goes that's a free gift hmm and you can't earn it and you can by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight for by the law is the knowledge of sin it tells us what the law was given for so that every mouth may be stopped and all become guilty before God to be a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ it was to show every person that they fell short they are not righteous they don't meet God's standards and so therefore they need to turn to Christ as Savior because they cannot make it by their own works that's what the law is for and that's how you use the law lawfully hmm we should be should we lie should we steal should we murder should we commit adultery no but Jesus up the standards of Matthew 5 when he said you're looking at one with the lust you committed adultery yeah nobody meets those standards and it is therefore we conclude that a man is justified that means made righteous in the sight of God without the deeds of the law Billy I think this puts it well think of your entire walk with you God as a plant yes say salvation is the roots it's important and yes it's an assist for anything happening but your plants not gonna get very far at all so that's why you need a stem a walk with God and he though some works there and guess what if a plant has a lot of flower is very has a very long stem with a lot of leaves it's gonna have a better flower a better time in heaven it's more gifts mm-hmm that makes sense to me but that's what that root was the root was Jesus that's right one of the things I want to say in the chat the term hyper Grace's is being typed in there okay look here's the bottom line God's grace is hyper whoa it is hyper he forgave every sin that was ever committed and gives us the opportunity as a free gift to have the imputed righteousness of his son that had to die on the cross for us that to me is hyper grace he's forgiving everything every horrible thing that we've ever done he's forgiving it and saying I've done this for you because of my love for you you can be reconciled to me and spend eternity with me all you have to do is believe and accept this gift that I've given to you pause the typer Paul flat-out says it he said where sin abounds grace did much floor hyper abound is what is it Hooper or something it means super abounded hyper abounded Oh bounded that is hyper grace don't don't despise it grace in favor get over it thank God it's not fair you know we don't get what we deserve things know that yes thank God first and be glad you don't get it cuz you don't you don't get what you deserve that you think you might deserve it but you you don't you don't none of us deserve well so it is hyper Oh huh it is hyper grace so you can say hyper grace to me all you want and I'll say praise God first I progressed no problem whatsoever they mean it as an insult when I say yeah you got to decipher grace now does irritate me when they do sloppy agape when they when they add negative words to it but hyper to me is not a negative word it is a it is a great description of what His grace actually is yes it's hyper it saves the unsaved it releases the prisoner it my gosh you shall know the truth the truth will make you free what is it about this message that's upsetting you I want to why does why does he not like it why what is it about the message that none of what you're doing is helping you get saved or stay saved I want to know what it is why is that offensive to you okay not want it do you think you need that mm-hmm I think it's but because he's not Connie on the right thing that's just my opinion he's Connie on he's looking for something inside himself to make up the difference that Jesus didn't do on the cross none of us say don't keep God's law I mean it's not really we're not know you mentioned Rene that he up the stakes Jesus definitely up the stakes but how worried up the stakes was referring back to the the to the two laws that Jesus gave us to fall that wraps up all the laws and prophets loved Lord your God with all your heart with everything and love your neighbor as yourself and now my question is is anyone capable of doing that apart from the holy spirit are they able to do that with on their own goodness that they walk around with nobody's ever done it even after being saved nobody loves God with all their heart soul and mind that's why he had to love it love us with his that's exactly right so that makes the point clear enough he's saying something about the man of lawlessness here in there and he's saying you know antinomianism is considered of it okay here you go is the big issue you're having here is you think that there's a bunch of born-again Christians running around lawless that's killing people or something I mean what is it that you're so concerned about here I mean so many people have the straw man argument against a regress of God but I'm gonna tell you one thing I know a lot of religious people or lordship here were people on a wrong gospel that might be doing that but I don't know any born-again truly saying people that love sin and just indulge in and just don't care like it's good I'm just gonna I don't know this person they keep thinking exists you know I know Christians that struggle sure but I don't know one that isn't grieved by it so what what is their feet are here they this is just too radical that God would freely give us eternal life because it we just believed it and receive it that's just too scary for them I mean I guess is hey I don't know the thing is the third that they're not believing the gospel and not only they not believe in it they're thirds are angry at it that's very good morning right and what I was gonna say is that people don't want to stand how much God loves us right lovey is remember back with the Sin City preacher sing with the testimonies and miracles in our lives yes I remember and I met Jonathan Bowser's and they're mean making ransom random free my son's a big fan of that mathematician yeah I saw God laughs at numbers at large you're you're comparing mortal sizes of numbers that larger there's a lot linked to God in a second mortal all mortal minds can describe love it son compatible it scary it's comparing one two hundred actually no one hundred can be counted two it can be described we're talking to a hundred to like us good gosh army such that that number of you can't compare them God's real love and character we don't we don't we can't conceive of it and so we try to limit him and make it small you know we want it to be something that we can qualify for okay so before we say goodnight did anyone on the panel have anything else you want to add this topic of were we're discussing lordship being impossible and possibility of lordship salvation there's there's just one more kind of little thing here somebody had mentioned earlier on that they say I have a hard time believing that all those Catholics and all those Lord shippers are unsaved why can't some be saved and just arrogant of Scripture okay so how Paul saying none of them are saved no exactly yeah I God knows who's trusted in him yeah say that one more time Renee what seem in again yeah I don't know who saved saved or not right but yeah are there some Catholics that are sage probably absolutely come out of her my people his people are in the hair come out of her did you or fornication I believe that I do I believe that a saved person can fall into error and get religious and self righteous absolutely I do but that nobody here has said every person that believes this is on Sage no that person no God is only God knows it's a God knows them better his yeah listen there's heresies among us so that we can determine if they're brothers and sisters but we we can't tell somebody they're on sait if they say they trust Christ or we don't know I'm not here to judge people's salvation no the point is that nobody knows but God that's the point nobody knows when but God and we clearly defined what the problem is the problem is if you add anything to what Christ has done if you're resting or relying on anything else other than what Christ did then you're on you're not saved and how much effect is Christ have for somebody trusting in themselves no no no I'm sorry I was waiting for someone else answered right right no effect you yeah what it says that's right so we don't need to add anything to it go ahead Joseph I'm sorry did I step over you know you know Maya I have compassion for people that may be in this line of thinking because probably they're hurting inside and they're angry at God and so they think that by you know Allah showing off this anger that that they're going to finally get what they deserve or what others deserve and but but see that's the wondrous love of God is that he is unceasing in His goodness and that is just so lovely and so important to hold on to oh my god okay thanks Joseph I don't know if liberally conservative is the one that asked the original question but he they are saying I asked the question because when I was Catholic and growing from that too proud of going from that Protestant and from lordship law law based I still trusted in Christ through that and I used to fear that I was unsaved when I was saved Renae do you want to make a comment on that or Joseph or Darrell about yeah yeah I believe there's people that trusted Christ and then joined false churches I mean absolutely I know one Catholic priest that stayed in the Catholic Church because he got saved and wanted to make sure that his parishioners could hear the real gospel jazz you mentioned yeah so yeah absolutely I believe that and I believe that a saved person if they're not careful because it tells us be not ashamed rightly dividing the word truth so you can be saved and be ashamed because you don't rightly divide the word hmm you know there there's what what I focus on is what do you believe today yeah and if you're professing something other than the true gospel I'm gonna say well that's not what saves I'm not gonna judge whether you used to believe or you believed at one time or when you might have believed I'm gonna say right now today you're not understanding the gospel and if you want to give people the gospel so they can be saved we got to be clear on what this is right you know and and I don't know if you were saved or when you were saved but right now today that's error so we need to address that that the Foundation's got to be right so that that's how I come to the thing I don't need to question or figure out when somebody might have gotten saved brother Luke thank you know he has the same approach yep all I know is right now you're not believing the gospel that's what's important right now maybe right address it yeah we're not going back in time and trying to prove when someone saved or not say if we're not doing that we're talking about right now what do you believe right now if you're resting in this finished work you're believing on what he did and nothing else you're not adding anything else to it then brother or sister welcome I mean you're you're part of the family of God your adopted sons or daughters your joint heirs with Christ he will know that we don't hate him no want him happy and saved and resting and understanding that's all nobody's angry at him if he if he doesn't understand fully the grace of God or how you know the process of sanctification or discipleship plays into with salvation you know all of us any of us would be happy to sit down and talk to him absolutely anytime and I think Matthias reached out to him to to talk to when we have a discussion also literally conservative just put in there yes thanks for commenting appreciate y'all I'm resting now so that's the point I was just going to make one more point in that as to say that there may be some people that are strong enough that they've been through lordship or they work and then they've come in to rest that they may feel God may tell them to stay right where they are so that they might minister the true gospel to the people there that are caught in error and so we're not worried about those folks we're not worried about the people that are resting in in Christ the so the answer to that is there there are people in all kinds of different denominations of churches that are truly saved and that may be why they're still there they haven't come they haven't come out of her yet for that purpose but I will say this it's gonna get harder and harder I believe that he that he's separating the wheat from the tares I mean it's a long process but I believe as he gets he gets close to the end it's gonna be way more defined as we get close to ecumenical you know the one one-world religion it's already moving towards that and that's the tell to when you see these denominations that are so yeah let's just join let's just all be under one roof enjoy man join with the Catholics and join with the Muslims and let's just we just need to love each other that's prophesied you cannot be friends with the world no and if it was look 1.2 billion people or Catholics and then you've got all these other professing like cult Christians like Jobos Witness and Mormons and then you've got your orthodoxes which also came out of the Catholic Church and it's called the mother of harlots so those are right either and so you've got almost half the third of the world claiming to be Christian does that sound like the narrow way works they believe Jesus Plus works and Paul tells us that if it's grace is no longer works otherwise grace is no more grace yeah absolutely amen why not they're diametrically opposed it has to be either either works or all God's grace it cannot be both amen all right I think we're gonna close it down for night before we go I do want to tell everyone that we will be hearing more from Joseph on Thursday he's graciously agreed to do a testimony I'm looking very forward to doing that and that will be on the other channel beyond a true story life but it's going to be simulcast here on talking doctrine as well so I think the facts will probably post a link to the two TSL so that everybody can come over there and and fellowship in the chat and be a part of that as well so we'll get an opportunity to really hear the whole thing from Joseph and I'm telling you I'm super excited about that and I haven't talked to you about this yet Joseph what we want to do is just try to get together on a time I'm on the East Coast Eastern Standard Time and I was thinking eight or nine o'clock so if either of those times works for you then we can just announce when that will be and we can we can do it that way either of those okay okay so um I'll get together with Mathias and we'll set everything up and but just let you guys know be prepared for Thursday and I get a chance to really just listen to the story because I'm telling you he was here last week so some of you that were here I got a chance to hear just the the excitement that comes from Joseph for being free and it's contagious you know God tells us to not forget our first love and so we're getting a chance to see someone that's and and I I struggle to say this because people really really take this the wrong way but he's in love with Jesus and it's such a wonderful thing to see that and to be a part of that it's someone that's just excited and thrilled and on fire he said earlier was just on fun on fire and I that I used to put a bad taste in my mouth cuz a lot of times you'd hear someone saying I'm on fire for the Lord we need to be on fire for Lord but I look at them and I'm not seeing or feeling any any fire I'm not feeling on fire from them and that's because they're on fire about their self-righteousness that's what not everyone that says that but in this case in Joseph's case I believe he's on fire for the Lord I do and I so well yeah absolutely it's come a long way in a short time that's for sure you know absolutely so we'll get a chance to hear from him on Thursday so be prepared for that and I don't know if there's testimony tomorrow night I'm talking about run on Tuesday Matthias will let me know if there's anything planned but I want to thank everyone on the panel first of all Renee thank you so much for being on the show again we love you and appreciate you and I just want to say I know it gets hard to deal with all the people that are coming against you but you have a lot of people that are praying for you and and and just we want it to stop we know it won't but we want to stop because it does take a toll but you have more people that love you and stand by you than you do the dissenters and the people that want to tear your ministry down i-i-i-i want to tell you that and in in a very heavy way that means so much and I'd like to focus on that little Jim posted a comment would it be all right if I read it please do okay he was trying to explain the infinite love of God and he's using mathematicians words and now I can't even find it okay if I can find it all I'll bring it back up okay um while you're doing that then I Joseph thank you for being a part of the broadcast tonight we really appreciate you being here as well and yeah we look forward to talking to you more on Thursday and getting a chance to hear your full story okay go ahead Renee so he says he's using finite numbers but God's power and love is infinite he is Omega the tsutsu purim of all supreme among all finite things hmm beautiful brother Luke posted that in chat too so everybody can take a look at that in the chat as well I actually took the time to type it out so that's great thank you Jim Jim appreciate that oh are you uh are people still calling you Jim Jim was just Jim now I've always called him Jim Jim but a lot of people calling James okay thank you Darrell thank you again for being here as always my faithful co-host yes of course I had a great time I'm out of breath trying to keep up with the chat room yeah great great yeah excellent thank you also normally we tell everyone that Mathias is here and I didn't do that tonight but Mathias has been here and he had a situation with some kittens at the beginning the show is trying to wrangle some had someone looking at picking up a kitten and there they were taking their sweet time trying to decide so I didn't announce him but he has been here and he's putting the Scriptures up we didn't use a whole lot it was it was it was more of a conversation tonight we used some but he's always faithful but those scriptures up for us and we appreciate even having a channel to have these discussions so thanks to Mathias and talking doctor for providing a place for us to point out the impossibility of lordship salvation so this has been episode number 41 of monies milk again I'm Jason crypts thank you all on the panel and for everyone the chat thank you for being here as usual you guys are awesome and tune in again next week to talk to doctrine for another episode episode 42 next week all right that's it so for everyone on the panel and for everyone to talk and doctrine thank you so much for joining and until next week good night god bless thanks a lot

2 Comments

  • Anthony Lomaglio

    I struggle with the flesh too.. please pray brethren that Gods Spirit sanctifies my life more.. Only through His strength!!! Godbless😊

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